Episode 6
The Evolving Language of Gender With Sam Wittig
The Evolving Language of Gender With Sam Wittig
In this episode we get curious about:
- [02:35] Gender explained as human construct.
- [04:50] How self-expression can empower us.
- [06:21] Language keeps evolving.
- [08:31] Journey to self-discovery.
- [09:43] Finding your tribe is like finding your family.
- [11:15] Venn Diagram for individual groups explained.
- [13:00] Living on her own in a LGBTQ+ community.
- [16:51] Representation explained.
- [20:21] Emotional labor
To learn more about our guest:
Website: FluffyMenaceCraftsCo | Etsy
IG: simplyfj
Other: Sam Wittig Etsy photo - 1.jpeg (dropbox.com)
To learn more about Laurin Wittig and her work: https://HeartLightJoy.com
Copyright 2024 Laurin Wittig
Transcript
Interview Episode with Sam Wittig
[:[00:00:42] Hello, my wise friends and welcome to Curiously Wise. I am so excited today to have a very special guest. The one, the only Sam Wittig. I can tell you a lot about her, but I'll try to keep it short and sweet. She is a dog lover, an avid gamer, and audio engineer for me. She’s an Excel expert. She loves to travel.
[:[00:01:35] Thank you so much for being here, Sam. As I said to you earlier, when we were chatting, I'm, very excited and a little nervous. But let's just start off. I've invited Sam to be here with me today because she is my personal expert on all things gender.
[:[00:02:02] And so Sam, one of the main things that I want to talk about is gender, because gender is something that I was raised there's men, there's women. We knew there were gay men, but you didn't talk about them when I was a kid. I look back and say, oh yeah, there were several gay men the community I was part of, but that wasn't really spoken of at the time. It was dangerous. So, but your generation is completely different.
[:[00:02:35] Sam: So, the millennials kind of thrown away gender. I do identify as non-binary and lesbian. And I know that's a little confusing because how can be lesbian if you don't have a gender, but it's, you know, they're all just titles to help you figure out who you are.
[:[00:03:00] it's really, it's something that people made up, the different gender roles, gender expectations, all of that is not even real.
[:[00:03:27] And I think that's really powerful. I think it's been a really powerful movement of the LGBTQ community. Just saying we don't need the old way. It's fine. And it serves and it's done what it needs to do, but it's now harming more than it's helping. And so we're going to move on, we're going to do something different.
[:[00:03:48] Laurin: So you're an English major and a writer. I didn't put that in there either. But the, power of language is something I've always thought was important. It's if you [00:04:00] can't name something, you can't understand it. And so this idea of, of having this fluidity of names, I think is part of what's confusing to, to my generation, at least, to me, I'll speak personally. Because it it's still changing. It's still evolving, you know, first it was gay and lesbian and then it was LGB and then it was LGBT. And thank goodness we've added the plus. So we don't have to remember the whole listing everything off.
[:[00:04:25] Laurin: And not, not hurt somebody's feelings by leaving out their preferred...I don't even want to call it label, but their preferred expression of themselves might be a better way to put it. So from a language point of view, how do you feel that being able to identify yourself or express yourself with these particular words that you've used, how do you feel like that empowers you or brings power to you?
[:[00:05:00] So, you know, Shakespeare made up words. Elbow wasn't a thing until Shakespeare decided it was. So, we've been inventing language for centuries. That is how we have language to start with. So I think one of the more important things to remember is that it can change. It can be better. It can be more descriptive. Maybe we just don't have the words right now that we need and will have in the future. I know that the they, them thing has been confusing for people in the past and...
[:[00:05:31] Sam: Not to point fingers, but I think, especially with that, for an example, you use, they, them for people without even realizing you do so all the time. And it's one of those things where, if I'm writing it down, my computer is like, you're talking about plurals and then you're talking about singulars.
[:[00:06:00] Everyone's different. I am comfortable with she, her, or they, them pronouns. I could use either. They don't bother me.
[:[00:06:27] I know a few people who just don't like labels at all. They don't like to be put in a box. They know who they are and they don't need to explain it to anybody else. For me, personally, those labels helped me figure out who I am. They helped me put names to things.
[:[00:07:00] And it helps us feel less alone. I mean, lesbian is just a term that you can use to be like, I'm not interested in CIS men. That's really all it means. You know, I, I'm not interested in dating CIS men. I find non-binary people very attractive. I find trans people very attractive. I find women very attractive.
[:[00:07:39] So, you know, that's your first stop. Go to Google first and check there. But most of the time, most people are very open to explaining if they know you're coming from a place of curiosity and respect rather than judgment. But I think, I think language is really important. I think it's, how we describe who we are and it's just, we don't necessarily have the language that we need for everybody right now.
[:[00:08:06] Laurin: Yeah.
[:[00:08:08] Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. And I love that you harken back to Shakespeare. Cause that's one of my favorites.
[:[00:08:12] Laurin: He made words up all the time.
[:[00:08:18] Laurin: Yeah. I hadn't thought about how it helps you to find the community that supports your journey to self-discovery, is the way I see it. But that's very, that alone is very powerful, I imagine.
[:[00:08:54] And that's really isolating. That's most difficult part I think is when you just don't understand your own feelings. When you don't know what this is that you are feeling, and then when you find that word or that identity or that description, and you realize there's other people out there, it is so liberating.
[:[00:09:20] Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. That's it was not a gender issue for me, but finding Alanon in my twenties was same kind of affirming and lifesaving, cause to not be alone on whatever journey you're on. We are humans. We are made to be in community. We are made to, to be supportive of each other. And I, that, that's very powerful. I hadn't thought about that.
[:[00:10:09] Laurin: Yeah. And that accept you for who you are right there in that moment.
[:[00:10:23] Laurin: Good. Good. I assume that you've found that. I know you've found that
[:[00:10:29] Laurin: Sam moved across the country to find that.
[:[00:10:47] Sam: Yep. Woman.
[:[00:11:00] Are they a bunch of separate communities that of come under an umbrella or is it mostly like not, I don't want to say homogenous, but a combined community that has, you know, obviously not every community is homogenous.
[:[00:11:15] Sam: I think the best visual I could give for it is a Venn diagram. There's lots of individual groups, but we all kind of overlap in places. And it's not so much of like a group over here and you're not welcome. It's more of like, these are the people who identify this way and you're welcome to come hang out with us, even if you don't identify this way, but you have to understand that this is, this is our community over here doing this thing. And these are the issues that are important to this community.
[:[00:12:00] It's a whole different issue that it's gotten very corporate and we need to get corporate and cops out of Pride, but it's great for the community to have a time where we can celebrate being who we are all in one place. Because we do have very different groups within the LGBT community and there are some groups that want to just be with their other groups. And there are some groups that want to build a larger community around that.
[:[00:12:32] Laurin: Yeah.
[:[00:12:41] Laurin: I know where you live. Do you mind me saying where you live?
[:[00:12:45] Laurin: Samantha lives in Seattle and she's been out there for what? Nine years now.
[:[00:12:51] Laurin: I think the answer to this is going to be no, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Do you ever feel unsafe where you live because you're part of the LGBTQ plus community?
[:[00:13:29] I live on Capitol Hill and that's kind of where the gay community and the queer identities focus. It's where all the gay clubs are and where a lot of the queer owned businesses are. And so it's, it's a much better place I think. And I'm much happier since I've moved up here. It feels much more open and welcoming. But the city in general has been very, very good.
[:[00:14:10] And they were so supportive and so open and so excited. And now it's like an annual thing that everybody looks forward to is the Pride happy hour. And I get to host it every year and it's so much fun. And I loved having that opportunity to kind of educate my coworkers. And since then I've had a few more people come into the office.
[:[00:14:44] It was just, wasn't talked about when I was there. And so the fact that I can go to my, not queer community coworkers and say, I want to do this Pride thing. And they're completely supportive and completely excited to do it incredible. It's not something I would have expected to find the East Coast when I lived there.
[:[00:15:10] Laurin: Well, this kind of cultural change often starts out west and has to...
[:[00:15:15] Laurin: I'm not sure how much of the central part of the country it's, it influences.
[:[00:15:21] that's yet.
[:[00:15:25] , cause I remember the last time you came home you were commenting on how there were people with the color of yours and who were obviously...
[:[00:15:41] And I went to your Wise Women group last time I was there and everyone was wonderful and super open and, you know. It's, it's feels like a lot of things have come into the Williamsburg area since I left.
[:[00:15:59] Laurin: Oh, yeah,
[:[00:16:08] Laurin: Right.
[:[00:16:10] Laurin: I agree that. I agree totally with that. We've got a lot more families that have moved in since, since we moved here 20 plus years ago.
[:[00:16:25] Sam: Even the older crowd, I think even some of them have really kind of been exposed to those things more. And it's been even some of the people I wouldn't have expected be as friendly to me necessarily when I'm openly exhibiting who I am, have been wonderful when I've been home. People I feel like have really learned a lot and really been exposed to a lot more just because of a different crowd coming into the area.
[:[00:16:51] Sam: And I honestly, and that's actually one of the things I would like to talk about, representation, is one of the biggest key ways to change things. It's subtle but important and not just in like media, but in just everyday, you'll find with most people if they're closed minded about something they're closed minded about it until it affects them directly.
[:[00:17:33] So I think that representation, whether it is in personal life, or media, or politics, is extremely important there as well. I think having that representation is what's going to shift the view into a more accepting and empathetic and open kind of a view.
[:[00:18:14] Sam: Sure.
[:[00:18:41] But for rest of us, it's really important because we get to see them as just people. And so for those outside the community, seeing this normalization like language, it's evolving. It hit me that it, it gave me so much more empathy for things that I didn't understand by seeing them in dramas and comedies and movies and you know, I look at, and I don't know her name, but there's a black actress who's trans and she is gorgeous.
[:[00:19:14] Sam: The Orange is the New Black, yes.
[:[00:19:21] Sam: Yep, Laverne Cox.
[:[00:19:36] Sam: yeah. Yeah.
[:[00:19:53] Sam: You guys have Danica now in Virginia, right?
[:[00:20:00] Sam: First trans representative in Virginia. Yeah.
[:[00:20:21] Sam: I think one of the most important things about representation that people don't consider that it's doing the emotional labor, that the real people living in the situations then don't have to do because people are seeing this. And I think that's something that people don't really take into consideration very much how exhausting that emotional labor can be.
[:[00:21:01] Laurin: Yeah.
[:[00:21:04] Laurin: Yeah. That's her name!
[:[00:21:10] I know. Laverne Cox is incredible. I think she's doing incredible work. I think the other important thing to remember, and I want to say this for myself too, is every single person, in this community is their own point of view.
[:[00:21:37] And I applaud her for it every day, but a lot of us don't want to just be modelists of our own community. We don't want to be the example, necessarily. You know, we we want to be an example. We don't want to be the example. So I think that's important to remember too, but she's doing amazing work. There's a lot of people right now doing amazing work.
[:[00:22:12] And they're out there supporting people. And they're relatively unknown at this point, but it's one of those things where it's like we get more of those kinds of representation on television and people are more familiar with it. And also if they have questions, if they're watching a TV show, they're going to go Google it.
[:[00:22:48] And I'm like, what is that? I've never seen that flag before, but I'm going to go look it up on, on Google first. And it's kind of one of those, even for me, Pride is an exposure thing. It's like, oh, there's so many other things here that I don't personally, they're not in my sphere. I don't personally see on a daily basis.
[:[00:23:21] People have been forced to hide their selves, their true selves for their own safety and their own protection. And I think we're coming to a point in history now where it's safe to be who you are and that's beautiful and that's wonderful. And I think that it's getting to a point where the people who are not in that community are starting to see more and understand more.
[:[00:24:17] And I think that's important. LGBT people are going to do a lot of the work, but we need our allies to come in and help do a lot of the work, So I think when the other people outside of those minority groups come in and help, that's when more change happens. And it's great you're in one of those minority groups to be like, oh good. I don't have to do everything. I think at the start I can get the ball rolling.
[:[00:24:49] Laurin: Yeah, it's the pattern of what you're talking about of the way culture changes. I certainly grew up with, in the Civil Rights movement of the sixties and seventies, it's, hasn't finished. We don't like change. We don't move quickly, as human beings. But it's a pattern, I see in our culture in a lot of different ways, the women had to do it back in the fifties and sixties.
[:[00:25:28] We're just about done with our time. I do have these rapid fire as my audio engineer. You know, I have these rapid fire questions. I'm going to ask you the same ones. So I want to ask you, who is, or was the wisest person in your life?
[:[00:25:44] Laurin: They were coming.
[:[00:25:53] And know, and I was thinking about this. I'm like, this is a little bit of a hard one because I know that Peepaw, my grandfather on your side, was not a good father in a lot of situations, he was a really complicated, difficult person at times.
[:[00:26:11] Laurin: Yes, he did, he did, he did.
[:[00:26:12] Laurin: My father was an alcoholic.
[:[00:26:17] Laurin: Oh yeah. Definitely.
[:[00:26:30] And he did that with me too. Some of my most cherished memories with him are going to the zoo in DC and trying to find all the hard-to-find animals.
[:[00:26:38] Sam: And just, you know, like where's the sloth, you go to the sloth and you have to look for 10, 15 minutes before you find the sloth. And just the patience to sit there and push through and do the thing that you want to do.
[:[00:27:11] Laurin: Hm.
[:[00:27:33] There was never a, a serious moment with him. It was always teasing. So I think I learned a lot of just how to enjoy life and how to have fun and how to always find the humor in things from both of them
[:[00:27:48] Sam: And how to observe the world.
[:[00:27:54] Sam: Yup.
[:[00:27:58] Sam: I have a few. I love taking a bath
[:[00:28:03] Sam: I'm really just having a hard day at the end of the day I will go take a bath and burn some incense. And I like to watch a silly YouTube video while I'm sitting in the bath, because it just kind of resets from whatever was happening. Music, music of any genre really.
[:[00:28:33] Yeah, it's beautiful.
[:[00:28:48] Laurin: Yeah, that it's so beautiful out there that you took us on that, that walk the last time we were out All right. And then what lights you up when you're feeling down?
[:[00:29:00] Okay.
[:[00:29:03] Yeah.
[:[00:29:15] Laurin: And Sam is very lucky. She works at home, but she also can take Pippin to work with her
[:[00:29:22] Sam: office, So he's my, de-stressor. he's my emotional support animal officially. I mean, he is emotional animal and he does of that good work for me.
[:[00:29:38] Sam: So my go-to is calm, quiet, peaceful. That's my usual, if I'm just feeling kind of wound up I usually do that right at night when I go to bed, calm, quiet, peaceful. And I add to it from there if there's other things going on, but that's my, that's my base.
[:[00:30:03] Sam: I have an Instagram account for my cross-stitch work, my original designs and that sort of thing. It's at fluffy menace crafts on Instagram, and I also have an Etsy store for my patterns. I don't sell the finished crafts at this time, but I do sell the patterns and I do commissions as well.
[:[00:30:29] Laurin: We'll put those links in the show notes so people can find you. This has been great. I always love having deep conversations with my children and I don't get to do it as often with you as I do with your brother. So I really appreciate you taking the time.
[:[00:31:03] So from my heart to yours, I wish you a day of joy, peace, calm and curiosity bye.
[:[00:31:37] And if you had any aha's, please share them in a review so we can continue to pay forward the unique wisdom we all have. If you want to know more about me or my intuitive energy healing practice, please head over to my website. www.heartlightjoy.com.
[:[00:32:16] From my heart to yours, may your life be filled with love, light, joy, and of course, curiosity.
