Creating Space for Joy and Ease

Creating Space for Joy and Ease: How to Manage Thoughts and Find Balance with Alan Carrol

Alan: [: 00:00:00

Push the belly out, bring it up, , and the O is observe. Any tension in the body. And as you breathe out through the souls of your feet, allow that energy and tension just to fade away. Mm-hmm. Do that three times and then pee is come back up out of that place of stillness, open your eyes and proceed with kindness.

at whatever thought you were [: 00:01:00

Laurin: Hi friends, and welcome to Curiously Wise. I am Laurin Wittig and I am really excited to have Alan Carroll here with me today. He and I had a chance to connect at a Patta Pza a few months ago, and decided that the little 20 minute time we had to record this just wasn't enough.

iates is a successful public [: 00:02:00

He and his team have delivered the mindfulness in action workshops in over 50 countries since 1983. He has been featured on a b CTV and appeared on several radio programs and podcasts. Alan's passion is helping people experience mindfulness through the stage of public speaking. Alan is a caretaker of the earth, enjoying gardening, hiking, bicycling, and especially time with family and friends.

He lives in Northern Virginia with his family, and I used to live up in that part of the, the world. I'm now in Southern Virginia Southeastern Virginia. But yeah, so that popped out

Alan: at me. So right now, Laurin, you're in Southeast Virginia?

Laurin: Yeah, I'm

Alan: in Williamsburg. Oh, isn't that a

Laurin: pretty place? Yeah. Oh yeah.

lan, officially welcome , to [: 00:03:00

Me too. Let me just start with, you and I got connected on pot appalooza as what we were calling a blind date, because there really didn't seem to be a, a through line for sort of the spiritual metaphysical stuff and your speaking stuff. But then we discovered that there's this mindfulness connection.

bet. And so that is, I love meeting people who are doing things that don't. Look like what I do, cuz I'm an intuitive healer and do all the, you know, the, the woo-hoo stuff. And yet you are so grounded in that mindfulness aspect that I really enjoyed learning about that from you, about how you use that in your work.

So I wanna start though from something from your bio and that is this transpersonal psychology. Could you define that for me?

would say that there are two [: 00:04:00

All the things that you've identified yourself to be. All those concepts, which I wrap up into a, I call it a Gordian knot. That condensation of thought is your, is your ego. Mm-hmm. And if I say anything about anything you've identified yourself to be like, those people from Southern Virginia are lousy people.

The people from Northern Virginia are good people. And if you've identified yourself as a Williamsburg person and I just insulted you, you then feel that something just happened in your moment of now that you don't like. Yeah. So now you hold a grievance against me and that creates a cannon ball that bring brings you down.

gonna say, let's get out of [: 00:05:00

So you wanna be able to create the space. And so transperson psychologist creates exercises that people can do in order to create space that frees 'em from the, the unravels, the ego and, and freezes their spirit.

Laurin: Oh, we need so much more of that in the world.

Alan: It's easy. All you all, you have to do uhhuh.

if you can part the thoughts,[: 00:06:00

They say that there is something on the other side of the thoughts that you think, which is an empty space of nothingness. And, but people have identified themself as the thought. So they can't escape from the thought in order to experience the empty space. So you gotta do exercises Okay. In order to escape from the thoughts.

That's

Laurin: your opinion. Yeah. Yeah. No, and that, that I love that image. That's, that's a really useful image. I use a lot of visualization with my clients and that's, so I'm always looking for great ways to describe things.

Alan: Absolutely. Me too.

Laurin: Me too. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. That's really, I, I love that because I, I do, I struggled with ego a lot.

tinuous journey and process, [: 00:07:00

Yep. And I can stop it immediately. Yep. And it is such a, a light in my life to be able to do that because we live in this sort of very you know, right, wrong, black, white, you know, up, down kind of polarity and all of that is judgment. Whereas if you could see the sky and get all that judgment out, you see that it's all one and everything's connected and.

It just, for me, it's been a life-changing understanding that that's just the ego trying to sort things out, keep me safe, you know, warn me about stuff and I don't, I don't need that. You know, if there's a fire, it's good to have it because it goes, don't touch

. Yeah. If it's a red light, [: 00:08:00

Yep. Yep. Exactly. Oh, so the past, the ego lives in the past, and so people use the ego and try to understand what's going on right now. And in the very first lesson in the course of miracles, they say nothing you see has any meaning. And right away the ego says, Everything has meaning. I have a meaning. My thoughts have a meaning.

My point of view has a meaning. I mean, that, that makes me me cause I have a meaning. Mm-hmm. Well, that, that, that does make you, you, that is true. But there's another, you on the other side of the thoughts that you consider yourself to be, which are it, which is your conceptual identity. Mm-hmm. So we can put your conceptual identity, which are all the thoughts of the past and all the thoughts of the future.

which there are no thoughts [: 00:09:00

No thoughts, which is the key. To wisdom, because wisdom doesn't lie in the thought that you have already. Thought. Wisdom lies in the thoughts, lives in the empty space in which there are no thoughts from which everything comes from. Mm-hmm. And so if you can ground yourself, how can you do that? How can, how can you do you get caught with the content?

Forget the content. All you need to do is control the timing mm-hmm. Of the speaking that you do every single day. And it's free. But you have to disrupt the speaker and the speaker's, my identity and the speaker's, my ego. And you're damn well not gonna disrupt me. And that's right and that's wrong, Uhhuh.

[: 00:10:00

I'm thinking about having lunch. Great. Mm-hmm. You have put a space between the thought of lunch and the observer, and that that observer is the freedom of psychological happiness. Yeah. Yeah. The, the, the ability to observe because you no longer get agitated by what you're seeing.

Right. [: 00:11:00

Laurin: are still, and that's where the curiosity for me comes in. Because for me, I, I, I jump to judgment. I'm human. You know, it's like, why aren't you moving at the green light? You know? And I get kind of wound up and then I can, I've learned that's where I practiced actually at first, was at stoplights.

Sure. Because,

Alan: First time driving's a great place to let it go. Yeah. Yeah. I let it go and I drive. Sometimes I drive.

Laurin: But I learned, I learned to just I finally learned, and this is years ago now, because it was when I was first learning meditation, first learning that I don't have to be so reactive.

op, stop that judgment, stop [: 00:12:00

An anxiety that I think so much of driving is a lot of anxiousness. How am I gonna get there? How fast can I drive? I don't wanna get a ticket. I was, was like this constant litany. But for me that was a really useful, and I haven't thought about it in years now, but it was a really useful practice.

Just like I was trying to create a meditation practice that I wasn't real good at yet, but that was something I did all the time. I still had kids at home that I was driving back and forth to school and all kinds of stuff, and that became a moment for me to stop and make the space. I didn't know that's what I was doing, but I'd stop, I would observe the thoughts and let them go.

And it was life changing.

% [: 00:13:00

Mm-hmm. It has to do , with the paint brush and the canvas that you paint your rendition of what you're looking at in your mind's eye. And this is what I, this is what I see. Oh, Laurin's wearing a purple shirt. I, I don't like purple shirts. And she has that funny little moonstone. So that becomes my mm-hmm.

The how I see you now is how I paint you.

Laurin: Yes. You just created a reality around that.

Alan: Yeah. I've created a reality in my mind. Now, of course, you have a different view and you paint the same thing that we're looking at. You paint it totally different. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But why do you paint it in a one way? And I paint it another way because that's, that's the past.

alize that the paintbrush is [: 00:14:00

Mm-hmm. And, and you realize that the way I'm painting it is the way I'm gonna react to it. Mm-hmm. And I say to myself, why would I wanna paint it that way? Which would cause this kind of reaction? What, is there another option? Mm-hmm. Is there another way? That I could paint this scene of Alan Carroll's movie mm-hmm.

That Alan Carroll would experience more joy that Alan Carroll would experience more love, satisfaction, be at ease, be it still. Is there another way to do it? And the answer is yes, through mindfulness, which is to become awake, that you have the paintbrush in your hand. Mm-hmm. And, and, and it's the, it's the way of managing the thoughts.

ugh your consciousness every [: 00:15:00

We're dreaming this. What do you mean we're dreaming? I'm not dreaming. Well, that's because you're asleep. So how can you wake up in the dream right now? Disrupt the pattern. How can I disrupt the pattern, disrupt the pattern of your speaking. That will, that will cut the, the, the connection to the dis, to the disembodied state, which is the ego.

f my thoughts going forward. [: 00:16:00

Mm-hmm. So, so people are outta balance with the masculine energy and they need to balance more with the yin energy. Well, how can you do that? You can do that by pausing. Because I stop firing my dragon's breath and I allow you to inhale. Mm-hmm. It allows me to ground myself. But if I keep firing my dragon's breath, I keep talking.

's the power of the observer.[: 00:17:00

Laurin: Yeah. That's what I call the hawks eye view. I have, I, I do some Shamonic pr.

Alan: I, I I'm love Sham. I'm going to Sedonas. I'm looking for

Laurin: Shama. Oh, Sedona. I was there last a year ago. It was awesome.

Alan: Well I wanna talk about that cuz I am serious. I'm going to Sedona and I wanna find myself on an authentic shaman that can take me to another Oh yeah.

Laurin: Level of consciousness or they're out there. Yeah. The but with, when you're in the shamonic world, animals nature, they all take on meaning in a way that. In our culture as a, as a group, kind of deny that there's any like sentence there or anything like that. But, so for me, a hawk eye view is that getting out of the, not the body, but the experience of the body and looking at it from this other perspective going, why, why am I reacting that way?

ferently. So that's, for me, [: 00:18:00

That breath is a space. You

Alan: bet. Breath is, breath is space number one. Yeah. Take a breath. Yeah. If you, if you're able to disrupt. The, the, the, the thought vortex mm-hmm. That see what Eckhart Toll describes it as. When you, when you see something in the movie that you're watching right now that you don't like, which means that it's affecting your identity.

You're something's attacking and, and defending your identity because you're not in love with what's in front of you. You don't like what's in front of you. You're getting stirred up. And the more that thing affects your identity, the more, like, let's say it's God, let's say people sometimes are strongly attached to the identity of the God.

ergy. And so you, and if you [: 00:19:00

So what you said earlier is the technique. Mm-hmm. The technique is, is, is, is anytime today have the thought that I'm thinking. I don't care when it is what it is, just have the thought. Oh, Alan Laurin is thinking about boom. All right. Now you caught the thought. You got the net. Now, now, now you caught the little sucker.

become still. The T is take [: 00:20:00

Push the belly out, bring it up, , and the O is observe. Any tension in the body. And as you breathe out through the souls of your feet, allow that energy and tension just to fade away. Mm-hmm. Do that three times and then pee is come back up out of that place of stillness, open your eyes and proceed with kindness.

fade away, then you park the [: 00:21:00

Mm-hmm. And you fall in love. And you speak with love. And you speak with compassion because you've identified yourself with the sky. Yeah. And the sky is all of us. You don't identify with the clouds. Right. But you gotta part the clouds, which means you have to part the ego, but the ego doesn't wanna be parted.

No, no, no, no, no. Ego is right. You're not gonna pardon me. Little sucker. And that's the problem that people have. And that goes back to what a transpersonal psychologist does. Yeah. It parts the

Laurin: ego. Yeah. The ego at first was, was a villain to me when I first learned about the ego in this format.

t helping me in my, frame of [: 00:22:00

, that was part of that practice, like at the, stoplight, you know, just to kind, okay, put it aside, breathe, be in the moment. But I've learned that ego is actually here to help us, but sometimes it's like a helicopter parent, you know? It's try, it's trying too hard so that we can't grow, we can't stretch, we can't find our way to the sky.

And so I know that ego can be like a triggering word for some people because I think at the beginning of a journey, you're taught that that ego is controlling you. Which it is, but it's doing it like a parent, it means well, is what I wanna say, but as you learn to set it aside, ask it to be quiet, whatever, however you wanna imagine that.

It becomes kind of a comfort to me to know that if I'm in an emergency, my ego's gonna pop in and tell me what to do. You know, it's gonna, it's gonna take over in those moments, but it doesn't have to be a constant control in my life. It can be the parent who is living across the country and is more of a mentor now.

And for me, [: 00:23:00

Alan: Meditation is the outer meditation is controlling the timing of the spaces.

Mm-hmm. Between the thoughts that I speak. And since the thoughts that I speak a second ago were the thoughts that I'm, I thought. What I'm doing is I'm slowing down, normal speaking, probably about 200 words per minute. Then you can go slower. So I train people to, to become aware of the timing of the, of the sounds that they make.

st be aware that I'm blowing [: 00:24:00

And when you have control of the timing, you have control of the reigns of the tongue, of the ego. Hmm. So you can tame the ego by taming the ego's tongue. How do you tame the ego's tongue? It doesn't make any difference what the ego is saying, but the ego is now awake to realize that I can control the vibration of my speaking regardless of the situation that I'm, that I'm looking at, which keeps me grounded.

, the outflow and the inflow [: 00:25:00

I want to take out a sound right now. No, I want to put the sound. No, you wanna take out the sound? No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put my space in there so then something in the ego world dissolves. And so as you practice every day for five minutes, just practice putting spaces. Between the sounds that you speak and immediately you can take a breath.

Because if there's no space between the sounds that I speak, try to try to breathe and speak at the same time, you can't do it. Mm-hmm. But if you pause in the middle of my

access the power of the sky. [: 00:26:00

You just became quiet. Mm-hmm. Clear. And you got to see something that was on the other side, but you had to let the. He had to erase a little bit of what you can see yourself to be. Mm-hmm. And that's, that's the challenge. But, but, but that's why meditation is so valuable, right? Because you're managing the thoughts, you see the thoughts, you let 'em go, you see the thoughts, you let 'em go, see the thoughts, you let him go.

You see the thought, you let him go. See the thoughts, you let go. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I'm, pretty soon you don't see as many thoughts. Yeah.

Laurin: And occasionally you hit that magical space where it's just quiet. Woohoo. Yeah. It's I, I have not mastered doing that every time I meditate, but I may not ever.

t. The other thing I noticed [: 00:27:00

And it's very peaceful. So it's kind of absolutely, it reminds me of music.

Alan: , I listened to YouTubes and there was a YouTube that I, I liked. And I ended up listening to a lot of Alan Watts, alan Watts talked about he says that and Christian Mey says the same thing. He says, when you begin to hear the person's music, that they begin to sing music. So you're trying to figure out a way, how do I get beyond the judgment? See, judgment of good and bad creates the horror. It creates the hell.

And , [: 00:28:00

And that's the second lesson in the course of miracles, is that everything you see, you add the meaning too. Mm-hmm. Whoa. Then all of a sudden, there's now a a, an awareness that how do I get to that place where there is no judgment? How do I get to that place? It's, it's the place in which there are no thoughts.

n quiet the voice of the ego [: 00:29:00

You describe it. I described it as being able to be aware. I'm, I'm at the traffic light. Mm-hmm. And I have these thoughts going on inside my head, and I'm gonna choose, are they, is there a thought I'm gonna think about? No. I think I'm gonna take a breath and all the thoughts fade away. Mm-hmm. That's why the breathing is so critical is that, because the problem with the breathing is if, if, if you don't think about breath, You get about a a half a liter each time, about 500 milliliters of air come in 500 mil.

eath. Mm-hmm. So rather than [: 00:30:00

that, that's 150, 200% more Prada. Just because I had the thought, Alan, take a breath. Yeah. But you're not gonna have the thought, Alan, take a breath unless you're awake. Because otherwise you're playing the dream of the ego. You're, you're whatever the ego is thinking, that's what you're, you're not thinking, thought about breathing you're thinking about whatever you wanna say.

And so now you gotta have, when you're on the whatever, I wanna say, you have to have the thought in the middle of that to say, whoop. And that will dissolve. Mm-hmm. And if you can dissolve the thought that, that, that you're thinking, the thought creates the tension Yeah. In the physical body, which creates the disease.

isease and evaporate thought [: 00:31:00

And I did. It had to do with Charlie Brown holding the blanket, you know, and, and doing the traditional branding. And it talks about forgiveness. Hmm. And he says, you have to be practicing forgiveness of that which you think causes you the pain, the suffering, the attack on my identity. You attack my identity, I'm going to attack you.

d attack thoughts. Yeah. And [: 00:32:00

The fire's building and building and building. And then the dragon goes, RA. And so this is the human being going Wow. Defending its ego, like the dragon's breath. But the thing started inside themselves. Yeah. The pain, the fire started inside yourself, right? So you gotta burn yourself first in order to psychologically get the satisfaction of, of, of righteous wrath and whatever is right and wrong, but you're burning yourself.

mm. In the dream, the things [: 00:33:00

Yeah. Ego is in the preservation of me business. Right. And me means my identity. And my identity is that I am an American. I am a done it. I am in this and I will defend to my dying breath. Carlson Heston's, as he held the rifle above his head. Yeah. My right, right. To hold my weapon. I was like, Woohoo. Talk about

Laurin: Emity.

One of the, one of the things that I discovered about myself in my journey with a narcissistic mother who had dementia, which is a roller coaster. I couldn't forgive her for the longest time, for all the childhood stuff, all this I held on, held onto it, which of course made me miserable and made me defensive.

life, she was diagnosed with [: 00:34:00

But for me it was also a blessing because I suddenly realized in a heartfelt way she was never gonna change. And the only person that could change. Our relationship was me changing my reaction to it. Yep. Changing my attitude about it. Yep. Stop being a victim of it. Yep. And the victim was the big thing realization for me.

had about three months left. [: 00:35:00

I softened, she softened. It was such a gift to give to her as well as myself. Yes. And the lessons I learned from that, that understanding that I was casting myself as a victim of my mother and casting her as the, you know, as the, the meanie instead of just looking at her as she's doing the best job she can.

I'm doing the best job I can. I can forgive all the rest of it, easily let it go. It's not gonna change. It's only hurting me. It was apparently hurting her too. And that last three months were so, and I still get emotional about it. Sure. I feel it. It was a precious time, but it, it was, I had to, I had to let go of being the victim of my own painting.

Yes, yes,

ego I had to let was to hold [: 00:36:00

Laurin: wanna let it go. Yeah. I

Alan: mean, I had to but when you let it go, what you experienced was softness. Yes. Stillness. Love. Compassion. Compassion. A lot of compassion. And, the idea is that what you think and what you see, Are the same thing.

Mm-hmm. So you changed the thought that you were thinking about the movie that you've been watching for 40 years, and you decided to change my thought about that. Mm-hmm. And so you were able to surrender, let go of, of the thought because there was another thought that that held supreme that came up that, that caused an awakening to happen in your consciousness, which made the letting go of the victim.

And that, that, that thought [: 00:37:00

You want things to be still, you don't want things to be moving, right? You want things to be still. You wanna be 500 feet below the ocean, absolute stillness. Nothing moves at all. Mm-hmm. Can you get your physical body still? Can you get your breathing still? Can you close your eyes? , can you allow your focus to be in your body?

yes. Comfortable position. I [: 00:38:00

Watch the thoughts that you think. And every time you see yourself thinking about some whatever you're thinking, got caught by it, every time you can catch yourself, stick a mantra there. Mm-hmm. And can't tell you the mantra, but I can tell you any you, you could use a, a good mantra

Just do it three or four times until you, until you have stopped that thought that you were thinking as faded away. And what will happen. You'll get another thought then for 16 minutes. And so you are practicing dissolving thoughts like, like the whackamo at the thought comes up. Whack Yeah. Thought comes up whack.

. Because I'm practicing the [: 00:39:00

Tm.

Laurin: I didn't, I couldn't

Alan: afford it. Wait, you said you were a hippie. You you told me you were a hippie.

Laurin: I'm, I'm a little behind the hippie. Yeah. But it was, I was in college and I was broken. I couldn't do it.

Alan: So, all right. Well, the TM technique is the same thing. It's 20 minutes and they give you the mantra.

You, they, they do a, oh, Laurin, you're a, you're a sok. Mm-hmm. And so for, you just go for 20 minutes, Sok sohi, and you just, whatever, whatever you're going to say is gonna be your, your chant. Right. That, that you're going to do. And that's that stills the mind. So we're doing is we're, I know your audience can't see all these things, but you can enjoy it.

Yeah. [: 00:40:00

What can I. And, and, and lots of people offer lots of different practices. Yeah. You get a little bit from here, you get a little from there, and you create, you create your own practice. Right. But the purpose of it is an eyes closed. Please probably get your eyes closed. Focus on the breathing. No distractions.

, on my office door when I'm [: 00:41:00

Alan: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

Laurin: All right. Yeah, I, I love talking to you.

I, I asked people for all of: 2022

So she couldn't negate it. Her ego couldn't negate it. And I thought, that is brilliant, because our ego will go right in, oh, you don't deserve abundance, or you, no, you don't. You're not gonna be happy today. Why would you be happy today? You got all this shit going on. Yeah. So exactly. So that, I just thought that was such a brilliant thing.

tely. Absolutely. It's, it's [: 00:42:00

Alan: yeah. And those are, those are judgements about, About the process that's going on inside your head.

There's another part of you that's, that's judging. This is good, this is bad, this is right. Mm-hmm. , when all the thoughts are are, are held together, I call that constipation. Yeah. So the, so the ego is constipated, so you wanna, you wanna add some space? Yes. And how can you add space?

Three parts to articulation. [: 00:43:00

So I'm, I'm taking a thought from inside. I'm bringing it out here. How, how clear. Actually the formulation of the thought, is it, is it full of Os and Os and ums and ass and iss and, oh, is it, is it clear? Mm-hmm. Okay. Second one, understandable. Is it understandable? Is the person able to take whatever abstraction they're trying to figure out and put it in a package of clarity that is understood through, for example, visualization?

o in the outer world in your [: 00:44:00

And as you create that space, it reduces the friction. Hmm. Which reduces the psychological suffering. And all you gotta do is children can do this, everyone can do this. Just practice putting spaces, it will reduce the friction. Mm-hmm. Which reduces the heat and allows for a fluidity to occur because now you're using the sky.

Mm-hmm. Because the sky is the, is the space, it's the, the being and the sky. You're putting beingness into your communication. And so now, so this, so it's funny because God cannot do for you what God cannot do through you. And so you're allowing yourself to be a channel of the Skye. Well, what does that mean?

become a channel of the sky. [: 00:45:00

Laurin: There is such power in sound, and one of the major sounds we bring into the world is our voice. And it's something that I have become very conscious of since starting this podcast particularly.

Hmm. Is that I want my energy to be in a good place when I'm interviewing people because I want that vibration, that higher vibration. You bet. To go forth. Yes. And so a lot of what you're talking about is making the space for that to be more fluid, to flow more easily to other people by not creating that friction.

And that's something

Alan: I have to work on. See? See that the

Laurin: what? That's something I have to

d, and work on that. Mm-hmm. [: 00:46:00

Yes. That's what I'm gonna be doing. I'm gonna be enrolling people into the two and a half hour coaching session, get them the discount. 9 97, that's Michelle talks about, we'll go down to 8 97 for two and a half hours. Then we have the virtual classes, which are the three day experiences, and we have the three day, we have live trainings and so if you see value in what we're talking about, it's like, well, let's go to the gym.

You know? Yeah. We'll, we'll go, we'll go to the gym and work out. And so then got me, that got me into the Con Alala stuff like that. And Kundalini, no, not the Kund. It's a, it's a scheduling of podcasts. It's Oh, Calendly. Yeah. You know about, you know about I love Calendly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks like, looks really great.

Laurin: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And it's actually pretty easy to use, but yeah. That's, that's wonderful. Yeah. And so we will get that information from you to put in the show notes as to how people can contact you. Is there one, one place that they can go that's the best place for you?

Alan: The [: 00:47:00

Okay. Would be the, would be the website then, then you have all the links.

Laurin: Yep. Yep. , I think that that brings us pretty much to the end of our conversation. It's

Alan: been, did that answer your first question?

Laurin: Yeah, you did. I knew we would, we would have a good, you know, it's just, I love, see, I can't get my words out. Slow it down.

Alan: Take a break. Very good. Very, very, very good.

Very, very good. The, the speed in which you are putting your words out is like music. Mm-hmm. And sometimes he wants staccato notes, and sometimes you want whole notes and you wanna be able to choose. So what happens is the ego is more in the staccato notes, so not a lot of space in there and a judgment going on, all that kind of stuff.

attern and. Of your speaking [: 00:48:00

It occurs at the same time. Mm-hmm. So you wanna get to the point where, here's the event and with here is now your response to the event, not your reaction to the event. And what is required. Required is a space. So by creating space anywhere between the thoughts that you think or between the thoughts that you speak, any space will work at making you a better observer of and, and not get hooked by all the things that are so easily hooked by.

ther people think about you. [: 00:49:00

Laurin: Yeah. That's a lovely summary. Thank you.

Alan: So you're welcome. And part, part of that, you know, I didn't know about the, the part part of that is, is your listening Yeah. Allows me to speak Warner Earhart talked about it. He says, you're speaking is granted by the listening of the audience.

Often people think the speaking is me speaking. Well, if the audience wants to hear you mm-hmm. There's lot of an opening for you, then all of a sudden the quality. And what means to me is that the of channeling of the sky I'd never had that thought before. And so that, that, that's a new. And when the thought went through me, it was like, woo.

order to experience the sky [: 00:50:00

And so what are you letting go? You're letting go of the thoughts mm-hmm. That you're speaking. Which, which gives you that, I call it a rating. Your thoughts. You're, you're aerating it. Yeah. You, you are allowing them to be little objects and the space. You're, you're more of the space. You're not the objects.

You're the, you're the space that holds the little objects.

uestion for you that I, is my: 2023

I know you do cuz you've been referencing books all along.

ars ago and brought it out a [: 00:51:00

It is. Lessons every day is 365 lessons. I've been doing it for a year and a half. I'm about halfway through, so I don't do one a day. Mm-hmm. Yet it is a, a roadmap of, of exercises that you do in order to. Reach that I am the sky, not the clouds. And then you realize that, well, I'm the sky, but the sky includes the clouds.

And so the clouds become something that are pretty. Then I can do what I want with the clouds to make them enjoyable, which is the ego is positive, not negative. Mm-hmm. Versus those, those aren't clouds. Well, that's a judgment, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You gotta hold, hold back. There are no dark clouds. This just, it's, you got dark inside yourself.

ut. And, and, and so that is [: 00:52:00

Laurin: pleasure. I, I get so much out of these conversations. I feel like I've made so many great new friends and learned so much, which is why I love doing it.

Cuz I

Alan: love learning. That's me, me too. That's part of the idea of meeting people like you. It's like, hey, it's, it's, there's another human being on the planet that I have a connection with. Yeah. That, that we have exchanged things. And this is twice. This is twice now.

Laurin: Yes, that's right. That's right. I, I have a feeling there will be more.

Yeah. Alright, go on. No, I thought I lost that thought. It wasn't a very important one apparently.

Alan: Well, I lose thoughts all the time. I, I find that the, the whole idea of, of holding onto something, the analogy they use is holding onto sand. Mm-hmm. You, you grab it and then it just sifts away. So you gotta get used to things dissolving.

d Buddha does everything is. [: 00:53:00

That's why I'm holding on to my identity, whatever I consider myself to be that day. Yes. Cause your identity changes all the time.

Laurin: Well, I also know that you are about to start up your own podcast. Yes. So tell us a little bit about your plan for that and what it's gonna be called and and that way when this comes out, we can make sure we link to it.

Alan: Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, first of all, I decided, well, what do I enjoy talking? Well, for the last hour or so this is the things that I enjoy talking about. Mm-hmm. So if you enjoy talking about things that Laurin and I have been talking about, those are the kind of people I'd like to, I'd like to have an in, in an audience, a bigger audience.

So we have a, a a [: 00:54:00

And, and, and, and so you can choose, you can dart around, you can. And so it's wonderful to be able to share with people who just heard, heard, heard us, our conversation to be able to tag on onto that. Yeah. So I'm going, well, I wanna interview people like Laurin. Good. I wanna interview psychologists.

g with all the stuff that is [: 00:55:00

Mm-hmm. But to be able to be ourselves. Who, what can we do? What mindfulness activities can we do to get ourselves back under control? Yeah. And my, my specialty and my journey is speaking Yeah. Controlling the sounds that you make. Wow. Yeah. I'm interested in talking about speakers, entertainers who are, who recognize music.

Yeah. Music would be the, the ability to puts silence. Yep. Between the notes. So that's, that's, that's what I'm talking about. You need sound healers on there.

Laurin: Healers. Yep. Sound healers specifically. It's a, it's a good marriage for you. Thank

Alan: you. Thank you. Cause I'm, I'm cre I'm, I'm a, I'm a beginner, so I, I, I want all the, I'm looking forward

to

Laurin: it.

nk you again for being here. [: 00:56:00

Alan: is, Hey, just ask me another question.

I like this

Laurin: juicy stuff. And yeah, so I hope you all have enjoyed this conversation as much as I have and have learned as much as I have. I, I love the tips that you've given us along the way. The, the stop thing. I'm gonna pull that out and make sure that we get that in the, in the show notes specifically.

And I will link to lots of these other things that we've talked about that the book of course and miracles and his website and podcast when it's available. Sure. And I hope you'll come back next week for another fabulous conversation here at Curiously Wise. We release new episodes every Tuesday, and in the meantime, stay curious