The Art of Intuitive Living: How to Access the Spirit World in Daily Life with Helen Gretchen Jones

Interview Episode with Helen Gretchen Jones

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Who are you to say they need to change? They always question me like that. So I have to remember that even something that doesn't align to me or that I deem as a negative experience, such as homelessness due to addiction, which runs in my family they're not ready to step aside and step out of that choice or outside of that experience yet.

And when they ask for help, that's different.

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It's got great reviews. But let me just tell you a little bit about her. I'm going to read you her bio, and then we will welcome her officially onto Curiously Wise. So, Helen Gretchen is a compassionate death doula, intuitive, and channeler who writes about shared death experiences and the essence of spiritual consciousness.

Her work focuses on fostering loving connections with oneself and others. And her work emphasizes trusting personal experiences and the teachings she channels from her team in spirit known as the A Team. Helen holds a dual master's degree in art history and theology from St. Edward's University. She is also certified in sound bowl therapy, Reiki, hypnosis, and past life regressions.

Beyond her role as a death doula, Helen serves as an intuitive guide, delivering messages from spirit. She co teaches seminars with her community ranging from grounding techniques to interpreting messages and signs from spirit, enriching the lives of diverse women across Central Texas. Welcome to Curiously Wise Gretchen.

Hi, thank you for having me. Thank you. Yeah, I'm, I'm really, I'm really interested in this. I had never heard of, of death doula until just a couple of years ago and never really had an opportunity to to get curious about it with somebody who actually does it. So I appreciate you coming on and being my guest today.

So let's start with the basics. So what is a death doula? And how did you get there?

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I I lost my father in 2015 and his death was sort of the catalyst to helping me work with people who are dying in my community. So I've just kind of been doing it ever since and I've been shaping and molding my experiences as a death doula based on the experiences I'm having at the bedside of these patients which have been really transformative for me.

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[00:03:38] Helen: Yeah. So I have several of those in the book and it's hard to pick which one is the best.

the most transformative. But one of them I could say would, and also it depends on how, you know, outside the box I want to get.

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[00:03:59] Helen: Okay. Well, a basic one just, I might share one or two, but a basic one would be when my grandfather transitioned, I still had this misconception that you needed to be at the bedside of the patient, you needed to be there for their last breath, in order to be like present for their, They're dying process and that's something I've, I've moved past.

That's no longer something my team in spirit puts focus on at all. In fact my team in spirit, who I call a team really says it's the years, months, weeks, and even days leading up to the person's final breath. The final breath is just releasing from the physical body, but there's a lot that's already taking place outside the physical body before that last breath is taken.

So when my grandfather transitioned, I was unable to make it in time to be at his bedside. So I went upstairs, I got into a quiet room that I knew I wouldn't be disturbed. I had little kids at the time. And I set up a little vigil. I lit some candles and I sat on my kind of prayer cushion and just kind of centered myself.

And I was able to take part in his. Transition. I was able to see his loved ones waiting for him on the other side. I was able to see him whenever he finally did let go. I was able to have this greater understanding of his joy and his expansiveness and his freedom from his physical body as it was happening and as it was unfolding.

And that was so important to me to understand that time and space really doesn't matter on a soul level whenever we're trying to connect. And I think this is sort of a theme that my team and spirit is pushing constantly, this importance of connection. So if time and space doesn't matter, then. Even being right there, I'm always thinking, Oh, if I'm right there, it's going to be a stronger connection.

Well, it hasn't proved to be that way. So that was the big lesson I learned that I think I've taken forward for all of my other transitions with patients. One that I had fairly recently, I mean, within the last couple of years, fairly recently is really outside the box. And I'll share a little bit about that one.

Yeah. So I I have my own private clients, but then I also volunteer with hospices and with NODA. And NODA is a program that's found in hospitals that stands for no one dies alone. And these are people who maybe never had children, maybe their family lives out of the country. Maybe they, you burned all the ridges with relationships in their life.

They could be alone for a number of reasons and they need volunteers to come and sit with these patients. I was sitting with a patient. I will call him Mr. Virgil, and as I'm sitting with him, I usually sit with a patient and I, I start by doing a little meditation beforehand. I set some intentions and sometimes I'll do a little prayer, you know, and as I'm sitting with him, I don't know what happened, but the whole hospital room that I was in sort of turned into a meadow, into a this big meadow.

field of flowers. I was transported to another space. I was aware that I was in the hospital room with Mr. Virgil holding his hand. I was also aware that I was standing in a field of flowers right next to Mr. Virgil and we were looking at this forest. And beyond this, this wooded area, I could hear a party and that's normal.

I frequently hear welcome parties before people transition, sometimes even weeks before they transition. I can hear the, the The party revving up and I knew that we were about to enter the woods and beyond the woods would be his welcoming home party. But this is where it gets a little out there. Someone emerged from the woods and that someone was me, but I was a third perspective.

So I know I'm sitting in a room with Mr. Virgil. I'm also over here as the observer in the field of flowers and then a me of light. I was bluish white. I was much bigger than myself. And I welcomed him into the woods. I had lessons that I shared with him. I had these teachings that I really felt compelled.

And I was, I just felt this love for him, this incredible, unconditional, all encompassing love for a man that I had never met.

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[00:08:27] Helen: that I perceive I've never met. And I just wanted to hold him and make him feel safe and protected. And when it came time for him to ask specific questions about the people he was leaving behind.

So, which was interesting with Noda, you think they don't have anyone, but he mentioned his uncle and his son and he was worried about them. And the me of light showed him and quick flashes, potential outcomes for both of them. But when that happened. I was shifted back to the observer in the flowers and I was unable to see the potential outcome for these people.

So, I was somehow simultaneously in three places at once ultimately, Mr. Virgil did make it to the party, but this was. A new experience for me that I've only experienced that one time as of, as of yet. I'm sure it will grow from there, but it's fascinating whenever you allow yourself to turn inward and connect to spirit and connect to something greater than yourself.

The type of multi dimensional sort of aspects that they'll show you of the soul.

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[00:09:40] Helen: Well, it goes into greater detail by the way, in the book. So there's the beautiful teachings and stuff that kind of come in are in the book, but those are the details of that's kind of the gist of it.

And yeah, I, I believe I really believe anyone can do this. Just a little bit of practice.

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You know, cause it's so, it's so real it's, it is as if I have brought their energetic body. I do, I bring their energetic body into my, my office, my, my, my room, beautiful room here. And, and, and so I know that idea, that connection that we as humans think if I can't see you, feel you, hear you, I can't connect to you generally speaking and the really how easy it is once you kind of open your mind to the possibility.

To connect in that different way, in that non physical way. And I've done that with my with my father in law when he was in the hospital dying. I wasn't there, but I was able to go and comfort him. Mm hmm. I did it through a shamanic journey. That's sort of my way to get really deep, but and, and it was, and it was really interesting.

hen my dad passed. He died in: 2001

So that's that I, I just, I love that because that's something I find it for those of us who do work in the spiritual, you know, ecosystem. A lot of us do depend on that ability to connect energetically. Connect spiritually, connects at the soul level that shows up in interesting ways. Like the story you just shared, it's really, really, really nice.

So I imagine that, I imagine, I know that you must have a strong ability for compassion. I do. The kind of work that you do. Yeah. Yeah. So. Is that something that you've always had or is it something that you've been sort of building or, you know, tell me about that and what role does compassion play in it?

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We're kids. But that continues all the way through. you know, middle school and high school and even young adulthood, you are still grappling with how do I fit in? How do I, because that's what you've been taught. That's how it was straight from the very beginning. What you're judging other people, you're judging yourself.

And so compassion doesn't really fall into that real easily because you're being so harsh and you're trying to figure out how you can stay as a part of that unit, whatever it is, whether it be your family, your neighborhood, your state, your country. So It was a team that had me, when I started doing my meditations, really wanted me to focus on understanding compassion.

And they're the ones that made suggestions. They would never tell me I have to do anything. That's not their, their style, but they made suggestions on what I could consider and they really wanted me to consider other people's perspectives and put myself in other people's shoes and not to try to see what I would do differently if I were in their shoes, not to come up with a solution or try to fix or change anything, but really just to put myself in their position.

And then just really feel what they were going through. And that's it. And that was how they started. And it was after that, that they started making more suggestions, like, why don't you go volunteer here? Or what if you were to consider visiting this person there? And so compassion started to unfold in that way.

It did not come natural for me at first because I was like, I got to worry about my husband, our family business, my kids, the extracurricular activities. It was all very self centered around me and my immediate family. And my friends, you know, it was all very much like that. And then when I started to take a broader perspective and look at it from a bigger lens, I started to recognize how self centered a lot of my actions had been in young adulthood.

And so compassion is something that has grown along with my practice with meditation and working with spirit.

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because we talk about something that I thought I knew exactly, you know, what it was and, and everybody would have their own experience of it. And it really was a fascinating, for me, that was the most fascinating thing about that circle was that I got to see up to, you know, a dozen different perspectives on the same topic or the same issue, whatever we were talking about that night.

And and it does start to bring about compassion. It really does. And I hadn't thought about. That is a step towards compassion. But for me, the biggest, the biggest lesson was forgiveness and you have to have compassion. Yes. I find to forgive. So I had to learn compassion first and then I was able to get to forgiveness and I still am working on that with a few people in the world, but yeah, so that's, it's nice to sort of see the, the unwrapped, not the unraveling, but the, the journey you took and are probably still taking,

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[00:16:14] Laurin: take towards compassion because we're not perfect individuals.

We're just But I think we're all very self centered and focused when we're young. And we're all very family focused when we have small children. Cause I was exactly like that. I was like, I don't have time for that stuff right now. I got to get this kid to soccer and that one to band practice and feed them too.

So I think it's, it's pretty normal and I wouldn't want anybody to like judge themselves for not having figured out how to bring compassion into their, into their being. And I think you have to be compassionate with yourself probably first. I had to forgive myself for being overwhelmed all the time as a young mom, you know, I did the best I could, but that was the, yeah.

So it's I think for especially there's a lot of young younger people younger women that I meet particularly who are in their 20s and early 30s who are just sort of beginning their, their spiritual journey. And that's something that I think that they have to learn first and that as you're coming out of that.

I'm all about me stage. It's, it's nice to be able to name that. What, what you need to do is learn to be compassionate. You know, you can start with yourself and then move on to others or the other way around, but it's, it's natural. So it's a, you know, don't judge yourself harshly for the way you were as a younger person, because that's just sort of the natural evolution of, of people.

You know, it's we've got very, we're very self centered when we're children. Yes. So it's, it's part of that wisdom that comes. With growing older and, and more experience. So I, I love that. So you're you're a team told you to write a book, right?

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Actually. So normally when I hear a team, most of the time I hear their voices in my head and sometimes they're feminine. Sometimes it's masculine. But I hear it. In my own like mind's, mind's eye, like I just, I know it's not mine, but it's not coming from outside. This one came from outside as if someone was in my room.

So this was a little different. So I was coming out of sleep. I was waking up. It was morning. The sun was already shining. And I heard a voice just say, you're going to write a book. And I've had no interest in writing a book. I don't feel qualified. Honestly, to be an author, I am now, I guess, an author, but I don't know what I expected an author to be, but someone who probably majored in literature and, you know, I don't know.

I just wasn't me. And I asked what I would write about and they said, write what you know. And I really thought about that. I thought, well, what do I know? And I thought, I know, I know a little bit about a lot of different things. But I don't think I know a lot about one particular topic. But I did know that I could write what was actually happening, my actual experiences, and what was the majority of those experiences was happening at the bedside of my clients, my patients.

So that's what I jotted down, and I'd already kept so many journals about these spiritual experiences happening for years already with them.

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'cause I had just thrown a book across the room 'cause it was so bad. . He said, why don't you write your own book? 'cause I never sort of self, you know, instigate. And it took me years to do it. But I did finally learn to write a book. And yeah, once you get that one book written, you are definitely a, a writer.

You're an author. Before that you're just a writer, . So yeah, it's, it's, it's an accomplishment and it's, it's something that is a gift to everybody who picks it up or just receives the vibration of it. So it's really and they stay out there. You know, especially these days. It's not like you used to get, you know, six weeks or three months on a bookstore shelf.

They're evergreen now, so people can find it all the way down, you know, through time at this point. So I really, I applaud you for, for taking them up on that.

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[00:20:53] Laurin: no. I, I totally understand that. I have recently gotten the message to do the same thing.

And and I'm having to, it's been a while since I've written a book, so I'm like, okay, but this is nonfiction. I got to learn the, you know, that. Area of Mm-Hmm. Publishing and, but I'm excited by it. So yeah. But yeah, I've, I've had that same experience of them going you're gonna do this now. Okay.

That's how this podcast came into being. Oh. They were like, you need to get your voice out. You're gonna start a podcast. I'm like, what's.

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[00:21:25] Laurin: And look at me now. And, and the thing I find with, with spirit, cause I talk a lot about spirit guides too. And I call mine, my all y'all. All y'all?

I call my kids so many over the time I didn't want to like, you know, like leave anybody out when I was inviting them in or something. So I just call them my all y'all. We all have names for them, right? Yeah. But yeah, they, they, once they said, you're going to, you're going to start a podcast. And I was like, I don't know how to do that.

They started bringing things to me, you know an online class, you know, popped up with somebody I was already working with, but I didn't know she was doing that stuff. And then a book showed up and then somebody invited me to you know, like a long term workshop on how you launch your, your podcast.

And yeah, it's like, so. What I find at least is when they, when they give you those kinds of things where you're going, I don't know how to do that. They're like, we gotcha. And they start bringing things to you. And so when was the first time you had an experience with a spirit guide?

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And he was so, he was all white, kind of a bluish white light. He was bald, he was masculine. And his shirt and pants just kind of flowed a little bit. It was hard to explain. He was transparent, but solid at the same time, sort of like if you're staring into a really bright light, it looks solid, but it's also kind of has some kind of movement to it.

And He, my whole room lit up. He like glowed and my whole room was like lit up from this being. And he told me everything's going to be all right. And I remember thinking, Oh, okay, that's great. And I just rolled over and went back to sleep, but I felt so loved. I felt so protected and it felt so natural.

Like I'd already known this person, even though looking back now, I. I can't place them. But it just felt like, okay, thanks for the heads up kind of thing. And I rolled over and went to sleep. And shortly after that, my parents started the divorce process. And both of them moved away. Neither one of them took the kids.

And so we went to, yeah, they couldn't, neither one of them could afford to handle it on their own. And they we went and lived with our grandparents, me and my sister Gwen. So through all of that though, I always felt like everything was going to be all right. I was told. But the next morning after that experience, I did go tell my parents.

And they were, I remember my dad's exact words. He said, I believe you believe that's what you saw. And that's so disheartening. And it shifted everything in that moment for me at 12 because it was so real to me. And it wasn't like, I didn't question it at all. It actually happened. It was so transformative that it didn't leave me questioning the validity of my experience.

It left me at 12 questioning if I could trust the wisdom of my parents. If they knew what they were talking about, if I could trust when they said something was accurate or true or not true, you know, it could be about other people or politics or religion, it didn't matter.

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[00:25:03] Helen: they really know? Because if they didn't know this, then how could they know other things?

And so it really kind of, I don't know, made me grow up a little bit as far as trusting the words of my family, my parents. Mm

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[00:25:17] Helen: So. Yeah, that was probably my first big experience with seeing spirit as opposed to just hearing them. Mm hmm.

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So I assume that that's where the feeling comes from, but it's like, I know my internal voice and, and I have worked to make it kinder over the years because our internal voices tend to be a little judgmental or a lot, but I can tell when it's, when it's a different source. And I've, I've learned to trust that.

I didn't trust it at first. I thought I'm making that up. That's just what I want to hear, you know, that kind of thing, but it is it is different. So I get, I call them knowings and that's, and they just come to me and I just, I, these days I just blurt them out because it's a lot of times when I'm working with a client and there's information for them and then, you know, so I, I channel it essentially.

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Actually, it comes in more quickly than if I were to construct it in my head. Like, if you were, you know, like when you're saying something like, I want to eat an apple, that whatever information comes through for them, they're already going to comment on that apple before you could even finish saying, I want to eat that apple.

So it comes in so quick, like a download of information. And then it takes me a minute to sort it out at a much slower rate. You know, so I'm like this old computer processor that's just trying to keep up though.

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And that was, I love that way because I could tell it was not my voice, especially since I'm a writer. I know my voice really well. And so the, but the, the, the word choice would be a little more formal the way the, the, you know, the construction of a sentence was a little more formal. The metaphors were amazing.

And I was totally like, I wish I'd thought of that. Yeah. Yes, it's like . So that helped me to both sort of feel the difference, but also to, to really have a, a visual, you know, know understanding that it was not me that was coming up with that. And I journal journaled for years, I would be really interested to go back and look at my, my, like high school and college and twenties journals.

Because I bet I was already doing it there, but I just . Didn't realize it, you know because that came really easy to me.

So you have these encounters, either you hear them or you see them, or like the story you shared with us about Mr. Virgil's You know, transition time how, how is that shaping how you see the world to have those kinds of experiences and, and understandings, how does that affect you?

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It has brought connection to myself and to spirit and to other people and to animals and plants to the forefront. Everything seems to stem around. Our connection, our unity and our collective here on earth. And so it has really pushed me to study that a little bit more. What have they done? They've, It's made me understand that death is not final.

It has taught me the importance of strengthening relationships with others. Not just for yourself, but for them so often when people feel separate, that's when they have experiences of fear and anxiety and anger and not having a full understanding of even themselves or the world that they live in.

And the more separate someone feels, the more hurt that they're in, and this is where that compassion comes in So it just keeps coming back to that. They've taught me to sort of reevaluate what's really good and what's really bad. So and when we're little, we're taught this is good, this is bad. And it's very black and white. And then as we get older, it gets a little grayer, you know, like a little white light here or I'm only going to have this many drinks or whatever it is like there's, it's grayer in the, you know, good and bad.

But my team and spirit, I don't, and this is controversial from a lot of people who work in healing modalities and with spirit, my team and spirit really makes me feel there isn't. a bad per se. It's really a different perspective. It's really about a different experience and to not judge the experience, even if I deem it, you know, bad.

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[00:30:20] Helen: so like for example, addiction runs in my family. And so addiction is something that people don't look upon favorably. It's not like a positive experience. So if it's not positive, it must be negative and negative would be associated with bad. So spirit though, tells me it's actually not a negative bad experience.

It just is. It's the experience that soul is going through. And I'm like, well, as a compassionate person, I want to step in and fix that.

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[00:30:48] Helen: no, there's no fixing. You, you can imagine yourself in their position and then that's it. If they ask for help, that's different, but you don't step in and take away that soul's ability to learn and grow from that circumstance.

Who are you to say they need to change? They always question me like that. So I have to remember that even something that doesn't align to me or that I deem as a negative experience, such as homelessness due to addiction, which runs in my family they're not ready to step aside and step out of that choice or outside of that experience yet.

And when they ask for help, that's different.

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[00:31:26] Helen: don't project that they need to change in any way on or where they are and that soul's choice to experience that and learn and grow from that. So that is something spirit is teaching me that I still have to remind myself. You know, whenever anyone I, my children make a choice that maybe I'm like, ah, you know, I'm just like, okay, they're choosing to experience this.

It's like that. Yeah.

[: 00:31:49

And I was just putting it in the context of what you're saying because now I, you know, I see that, you know, that, that you, they're here to have their own experience. Mm hmm. And good, bad, or indifferent, however you feel about it or you judge it, it's their experience to, to have. But then I was, I was also thinking that, you know, I was, I was having mental health issues because of the situation at home.

And I was in college at the time when all this started to happen and it came to ending. But I had, I didn't know why I was such a mess. I knew my dad was an alcoholic, but I didn't know that that's why I was such a mess, because that was his problem. And the universe brought me a group, a circle essentially, at college, run by one of the deans, for the children of alcoholics, which wasn't a thing yet.

And I learned so much about it and it changed me. changed my attitude about my dad from he's just weak. He can't, you know, he, he doesn't love the rest of us cause he keeps doing this. And he's, you know, he's, he'd had heart attacks at that point and all kinds of stuff. And, and I realized, you know, cause I was thinking, well, I, I tossed up my dad, but.

Spirit had brought me to a place of understanding and compassion. I didn't think about that until just that moment. Compassion for my dad. And then I was able to have the conversation with him, not, you're going to rehab, but we're worried about you. We'd like you to do this. We'll help you do it if you can.

If you're willing. And he was. And he was dry for 20 years before he died. So you know, it was, it was, but I had to like put all that in my head together as you're saying that because I absolutely agree with you. Everybody's here to have the experience they decided to have here, which can be really hard to say to people who are victimized and in horrible situations.

But if that's what we came here to do, then it's, yeah, it's nobody, nobody else is supposed to be telling you how to live your life at that point. But I do think that we can. offer or that we can, as I was led to work on myself versus what I had to do with my mom to work on myself first to get to a place of compassion and then go, okay, if you would like to change, we can help, but not a, you will do it.

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[00:34:43] Laurin: Yeah. So thank, thank you for helping me put that together because I was 21 years old when I did that.

That was a long time ago, but it was I was like thinking, yeah, no, I shouldn't have pushed him. Wait a minute. You know, this other stuff happened first. Yeah. Yeah. And brought me to a place where I could do that. And then that was, I also had to journey similarly with my mom, because she was a narcissist who was not easy to live with.

And I couldn't forgive her for most of that, right up until the last month she was alive. And then I was finally able to find compassion and finally able to forgive her before she passed. And that was a gift to, to me and her. Well, that's

[: 00:35:21

I think death doula work is a natural thing that we do as humans in many cases. Yeah.

[: 00:35:34

And even I wasn't with my mom when she passed, but I had been that, that evening I'd said my goodbyes. My brother was with her. Overnight when she passed. So it was, it was a lovely sort of way to end that relationship. It's

[: 00:36:10

[00:36:12] Laurin: Yeah. Yeah. It really was. And it's made me be able to look back and appreciate the things that she, that were good for me in, in that relationship and to just allow for, I learned also so much from the struggles, the challenges and it's made me who I am today.

Right. Even though I hated every minute of going through it, but it was, it was the contract I had that she and I had together to, to make me stronger for one thing.

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[00:36:47] Laurin: No. So, yeah, I, I kind of, I stack the, stack the decks in, in favor of growing strong and sure and, you know, doing the inner work cause that's the only way it's going to survive.

So It's so interesting to kind of look back and put those things together. So I appreciate the opportunity. So this kind of ties into what we've just been doing, sharing these stories, but you, you do, you do feel that it's important that we share our experiences with each other. That's one of the questions that you had, or the topics that you had put in there.

And I feel very strongly the same way, but why do you particularly think that that's such an important aspect of, of our, our work here?

[: 00:37:30

And it encourages them to be open because sometimes when someone, it just takes one person to open. And then someone else might follow it ripples out. And so when you have all these people who are willing to be open and speak their truth in kind and loving ways, and not be afraid and have that courage to be vulnerable and transparent and authentic, then there isn't anything to hide.

And there isn't any reason to make someone else feel judged for their actions or their choices of words. We can all relate to each other and we understand each other and when that happens, we find ourselves in moments of just peace and love. And so I think it's very important that the more people who can share their voices and their stories.

in order to relate to other people, the more peace and love our planet will have. Boy, don't we need that. Yes.

[: 00:38:48

And I, I remember how wonderful it was to sit around the dinner table and listen to stories that, you know, and it could have been about politics. It could have been about, you know, your, your great aunt and so and so who you've never met because she was gone before you got here kind of thing. And just to hear the stories of, you know, my parents childhoods or the trips they'd taken, you know, as, you know, their honeymoon, whatever it was.

That storytelling tradition was really beautiful. And my kids didn't experience it with my southern family, but my husband's New England family would do the same thing, which is why I'm sure it's everywhere. They'd, we'd sit around at Grammy and Grampy's house and have a meal and the stories would start to roll out.

And it did help the kids to sort of put things in context. And even now that they're in their 30s, my husband and I find we need to tell them stories about when we were their age. So they know that what they're what they think they're struggling with isn't the end of the world, that it's you know, there, it's a stage and you're moving through it.

Because we didn't. They just know us as we are now, you know, when we've been married 40 years, we've traveled a long way from when we first met each other as broke restaurant workers.

[: 00:40:12

That's so. I can just picture like rainbows coming out of the hearts, connecting like bridges to the next person. We, I mean, it's just another moment of connection

[: 00:40:29

[00:40:29] Helen: another moment. Here you are sharing it. It's been happening for 40 years. It's been happening longer than that for your whole life. And here you are sharing it many, many years later.

And so you're touching more lives just by sharing about the, your tradition of storytelling.

[: 00:40:43

[00:40:44] Helen: it continues. It continues. And so if that inspires anybody else to get out there and storytell with people they know or their own family, it's just strengthening those connections, those human connections that we have together.

[: 00:40:58

[00:41:19] Helen: Sure. So the name of the book is Healing Whispers from Spirit Guides, and it is found on Amazon. You can get it on Kindle and audio, audiobook, which is how I read. I read by listening.

[: 00:41:31

[00:41:32] Helen: It's so easy in the car. Yes, exactly. Yeah. It really talks about the first couple of chapters really kind of talks about my little connection with my team and spirit and A Team and, and how I got to where I'm at.

And then the rest of the chapters alternate between a lesson or teaching that I've learned through this work, followed by a supporting bedside story of one of my patients. And I've had some really incredible, beautiful spiritual experiences. And I think the lessons that I've learned from a team and from these patients are worth sharing.

So that's what they can expect when they get the book.

[: 00:42:13

I'm very grateful. I, if you've been listening to the media for, you know, the last two years, you know, that all of her contact information will be in the show notes. Tell them the name of your website. www.

[: 00:42:42

[00:42:45] Laurin: Okay, so super easy. I'll also have a link to her book in this, in the show notes and her socials so you can find her all over the place.

I recommend, I'm going to have to go get the book. I have not read it yet, but I'm going to have to go get the book because it sounds fascinating and And I appreciate that you listened to A Team and, and did as they asked. And birthed this book because what that's, that's a storytelling format that is, you don't have to be related to the storyteller.

You know, so it's, it can reach much further. And I want to thank the listeners for being here with us today. I hope you've learned something. Maybe you've put something into context for yourself as well. Maybe you can be a little more compassionate with yourself if you look back and go, you know, I can, yeah, that's just the part of the life I was in and then start to practice being compassionate with others, putting yourself in their shoes.

It's, it's an ongoing practice for me. And I catch myself being as one of my friends calls judgy Mcjudgy pants, because it's sort of baked into us to do that. Like you said, we're built, we're raised in a culture to do that. But but I do catch myself now when I'm being judgmental and and then I can Can put myself in that other pair of shoes.

So I encourage you to try that as well. This world needs more compassion and we need it now. So I'm not your guide, your spirit guide, but I would just suggest that you start practicing nonjudgment and compassion. All right. Thank you for being here so much Gretchen. Thank you for having me. Wonderful talking to you.